FRANKLIN, Tenn. (WTVF) — When Christian nationalists gathered here for a recent "Holy Wars" conference, Pastor Doug Wilson was there to set the stage for a battle within the movement itself.
Widely considered to be the dean of Christian nationalists, the Moscow, Idaho, pastor set the tone for the conference with an opening address where he warned of the rise of antisemitism within the movement he helped create.
Watch full report from Phil Williams
I sat down with Wilson for an exclusive interview immediately after he had walked from the stage.
"It's actually stunning to me," I noted, "that you felt the need to open this conference with a warning against what you called 'arrogant antisemitism.' That sounds like, 'Houston, we have a problem.'"
”I think it is a problem, first," Wilson agreed. "But ... Jew hatred is a rising tide in our culture broadly, and some of it has definitely seeped into the conservative movement—and I want to be in the forefront of keeping it out.”
Wilson, who may be best known as the spiritual adviser for Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, has faced criticism for an approach to what one of the conference speakers called a "crisis" that has sometimes appeared to be too little too late.
Even in my interview, he declined to name the pastors within the Christian nationalist movement whose hate worries him the most.
I told Wilson, "A lot of these pastors who are pushing this Jew hate, as you call it —antisemitism—really idolized you. They were following in your footsteps.”
“When you look at what is happening, do you see this as being the fruit of your own teachings? I mean, do you think that maybe you made some mistakes along the way?"
"Did I cause any of this?" Wilson responded. "On this issue, absolutely not."
But Wilson did enthusiastically endorse a book on Christian nationalism co-written by Andrew Torba — who, the ADL has noted, is the founder of a "social media platform and haven for hate and disinformation" and "who "regularly promotes antisemitism, right-wing extremist ideologies, and conspiracy theories."
And Wilson isn’t so different from people like Jackson County, Tennessee, Pastor Andrew Isker when it comes to the argument that Jews should not be allowed to hold public office.
In Wilson’s vision for America, only Christians would be eligible under a Constitution that makes it clear it is a government of Christians, by Christians, for Christians.
"Well, I would say there's a difference between disqualified and unfit," he said.
I interjected, "You're essentially saying they're less than."
"No," he insisted. "A 30-year-old man is not qualified to run for president, but he might be way better qualified than many of the people we've had as presidents. So, it's just simply ‘these are the boundaries.’"
And in his writings, Wilson has sometimes seemed to accept some common antisemitic tropes, conceding that, because “Jews are a high-performance people,” they are “disproportionately represented in a number of highly destructive cultural activities and movements,” including the “porn industry.”
In a 2024 podcast, he and Isker talked about how they should accurately assess the Jews.
"Pornographers and brain surgeons—that’s telling it as it is," Wilson said.
I noted, "You sort of ceded his initial point that there's a problem with Jews and pornography. Was that a mistake to cede to him that?
"No," he answered, "and here's why.... I am more than willing to say that Jews have an outsized influence in certain bad areas, but only if you acknowledge that they have an outsized contribution in things that benefit us all."
I followed up, "I think my question, though, is it fair to put the weight of pornography on Jews when you have people like Hugh Hefner [who] was raised Methodist, Larry Flynt who was raised Pentecostal. You have Bob Guccione, who was raised Catholic."
"Yeah, yeah," Wilson agreed.
“So, why even cede that point that Jews are part of the problem with pornography?"
"I would argue that I, it may have looked like I ceded that point in that discussion, but I agree with you. I don't cede the point."
Last fall, Wilson hosted the visit of far-right figure Anthony Diehl, who has posted antisemitic tropes about Jews owning all the media, finance and porn companies, accused a Jewish person of “liking porn and small children,”… and said he wants America "free of Jewish influence."
Diehl has also minimized the Holocaust.
" And I would say those sentiments are dumb and stupid," the Christian nationalist pastor responded.
"So, why associate with someone who expresses those views?"
Wilson shot back. "I'm associated with you. You're a liberal journalist. I'll hang out with anybody."
Again, I followed up. "So, someone who minimizes the Holocaust and wants to diminish Jewish influence is the same as hanging out with a journalist?"
"Well, no, I wouldn't say it's the same thing, but it's the same category."
Two years ago, Wilson and other conservative pastors issued what they called the Antioch Declaration, denying “that it is possible to harmonize the racial and antisemitic theories of Adolf Hitler and neo-pagan doctrines of the Nazi cult with the gospel of Christ.”
I noted, "And my impression was the people you were really aiming that at, pretty much brushed it off as 'boomer slop.' Does that suggest to you that perhaps you're losing influence in this movement that you created?"
Wilson insisted it did not.
" There are dangers on the periphery, yes. And we wanna fight for those people, which is what we're doing. But we're not at all concerned about the core."
Outside that interview, however, protesters had gathered to demonstrate against the core of Wilson's movement—its desire to strip women of the right to vote, to outlaw all abortions in America, and to criminalize same-sex relationships.
"People can go to the Bible and see how that is wrong, how they are taking scripture and turning it on their heads for hate," said protest organizer Katie Fein.
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